First, I apologize for the novel of questions below, but want to make sure I’m doing my due diligence on this cartridge before investing and figured if I’m thinking of these things, maybe someone else is too.
Do you think the 7 PRC will be picked up by a lot of factory ammo manufacturers like the 6.5 PRC, or be more like the 300 PRC where you are only seeing factory ammo from Hornady, Berger, and Federal?
Randy Selby “The Real Gunsmith” on YouTube – a customer rifle maker out of Wyoming seems to challenge the 7 PRC capability in 3 areas:
a. Cannot achieve the velocity/energy stated by Hornady regardless of how it’s loaded.
b. The ELDX bullet turns to shrapnel when hunting big game and should not be used.
c. This is in combination with the 2nd point, but he seems to feel Higher BC’s do not make a bullet “better”. He seems concerned about the energy being sufficient and the bullet being well constructed enough to ethically kill big game. As someone who would use this caliber almost exclusively for hunting, this has me concerned the most.
*He can be difficult for some people to watch; I apologize in advance. Honestly, I don’t know what to think because he seems highly knowledgeable but is also the only person who is voicing concerns regarding the new cartridge.
What do you see as the ideal barrel length? Hill Country Rifles did a comparison video of 3 different lengths, but what is the best length for big game where you’re not trading off too much velocity/energy for a shorter barrel?
Carbon Fiber vs steel barrel? What would you go with for a hunting rifle?
I was all set to buy a Fierce Rogue in 7 PRC, but I’m hearing about a lot of problems with their QC and Customer Service. This seems to also be the problem with the Christensen Ridgeline and it’s just too much money to not get a rifle that performs well. I’ve heard good things about the Seekins Element but haven’t had a chance to handle one yet. The Savage 110 Ultralight action just didn’t feel smooth enough to justify the price tag, so wanted to see what else you guys would recommend, mostly for backcountry hunting. The answer may just be waiting another 6 months and see who else starts offering it.
Big picture, I’d stick with your initial impulse and get a Fierce Rogue in 7PRC and a 22” barrel. Shoot the ELDX and you’ll have an EXTREMELY capable shooting system.
I’d disagree with the Real Gunsmith about the ELDX. I’d estimate Ive personally seen over 40 kills with it and performance was excellent every time. I’ve shot a 28 Nosler (crazy fast) at just 50 yards and it performed well, and also on a slow 6.5 creedmoor at long range.
As for barrel length, the 7 prc does quite well with short barrels. For me I’d go 20” but many people would pick 22” for that extra 25fps.
Much of the older generation really questions the move to higher BC bullets and lighter bullet construction. I’m pretty convinced that I prefer to hunt that way. Just this weekend, I had to put down an already-wounded deer. It was at 591 yards and I was in a kneeling position shooting off a tripod. Crushed it. Your old school bullets, cartridges, and non-dialing scopes with old stock lines would have really struggled in that scenario.
As for the long term success of 7 PRC, I have more confidence that 7 PRC will be common in 50 years than any other cartridge released in the last 15 years.
I would guess that the success of the 7 PRC will eventually be closer to that of the 6.5 PRC. In time it may surpass it given that there are just far more bullet options for 7mm than 6.5 plus the recoil won’t be anywhere as heavy as the 300 PRC.
Regarding the Real Gunsmith… I will just say that it depends. The ELD-X bullet isn’t the same across the board and many that have shot it in multiple calibers have reported mixed results based on the individual bullet weight. With the 175gr in the 7mm it has been said that it’s one of the more toughly constructed versions of the ELD-X. The same has been said of the 200gr 30 caliber version over the 212gr version). That being said I’ve seen enough results of the ELD-D to conclude that it is generally a great option with some potential for risks for marginal performance inside of shorter range extreme fragmentation/ lead core jacket separations - particularly when used from a higher capacity magnum rifle. That being said that’s what bonded and monometal bullets are for IMO. Shorter ranged hunting.
As for rifle options, of the mentioned rifles… I’d choose the Seekins. Nothing against Fierce (I’ve handled several and shot none) but I have a bit more confidence in the Seekins rifle at the moment. I’ve seen pictures of rifles that made it onto shelves from Fierce that didn’t have the rifling on a barrel. Kinda makes you feel like there were several straps of QA/QC skipped in order to get product on the shelf. While QA/QC issues almost invariably happen to every company I personally know many that are overly elated with their Seekins. Personally I’m going the custom route for my 7mm PRC but if I were buying the Seekins would be on my short list for options this year and my other primary options would a Tikka/custom pre-fit or something like an Alamo Precision Rifle in that ~$3-4k range.
I have killed several animals with eld-x out of a 7mag and a 6.5 CM and I’ve been with on several other successful hunts with others using it. I have seen the bullet heavily fragment a couple times. That being said, even with the fragmentation it killed just fine and we’ve never had a tracking job. That doesn’t mean it’s magic, but it works. Between a 100 yard shot on a big black bear boar to a 700 yard shot on a bull elk, in my experience, if you put it where it is supposed to be at velocities it will expand and penetrate it will kill.
To address the concern about velocity. In my experience it is rare to achieve the listed velocities on any cartridge without overcharging. The reason for this is the testing done to establish the listed velocities is usually done with longer barrels than people use while hunting, I believe it’s typically 28" or longer. For there to be an actual concern there, the disparity between listed and actual velocity would have to be noticeably larger than is typical. By the way, the same is true of factory ammo, you will almost never achieve the listed velocities.
Lastly I’ll say, If it’s in the budget I generally prefer carbon barrels. On the last Q/A Jim talked about building lighter weight rifles so there is room for a heavier scope. That allows you to have a larger tube which gives you more adjustability on your turrets, and a bigger objective lens to increase low-light capability.
Certainly if you are concerned with the cup and core bullet there is the cx option from hornady. Or reload with a myriad of options or there is the talk of the Federal Terminal Ascent in 7 prc. As previously stated the eld-x construction is similar to many many others. I have no idea but lots of options in 7mm. I do not have any knowledge of where the market supply goes but I am hopeful as to what Jim days. Why would it not? I did get the Savage 110 ultralight and for me the negative is the smoothness of the action. And that is the bolt feels loose when not engaged - just feels sloppy when in the rifle and not in shooting position. I have not finished sight in yet so I cannot say anything on that yet.
Very good questions, and i feel your scrutiny is warranted. The larger shooting community tends to go all fan boy on new cartridges without one shred of actual data. I might buy a 7 PRC but not for a year and not untill several other manufacturers make ammo.
Exactly! See the 6.8 Western, which I still think looks like a great cartridge (see going fan boy), but very limited real world data and does not seem to be catching on for various reasons. Now my guess is the 7 PRC will fare better than the 6.8 Western. I’m currently shooting .30 cal and 270 Win, but have considered venturing into 7mm territory. If I do, and there is more real world experience with the cartridge, who knows, it may get my vote over the 7 Rem Mag.
Very good questions and dialogue. I have been thinking about a 7PRC since Jim’s first video. It is very similar ballistically to the .300 WSM, but the Wissim seems to be going extinct. I have always been a fan of the 7 mag, but want to use a box mag and the belt would cause a problem. I have seen enough complaints on Fierce Fans FB page that I would not buy one. I elected to have a smith put one together with components we agreed on. Action will be here Friday, barrel is being ordered and I am calling AG composites today to order a stock. Worst case for me if the 7PRC does not take off, I can rebarrel the rifle in another caliber. I plan on using Barnes TTSX bullets, so the ELD-X concerns were not on my radar.
@jeshoffstall, as one seriously considering .300 WSM for my next rifle, I am curious why you think it seems to be going extinct? I was of the belief that it has a small, but loyal following, and might be the one in the Wissim family that survives. As I recently started handloading, I don’t think it will dissuade me from the purchase, but just wondering how you were reading the tea leaves?
Maybe extinct is too harsh, but before I ordered my action I checked availability of commercial ammunition (Cabelas, Midway, Ammoseek)- none was available except from small reloading companies at over $100 a box. I don’t hand load so I went with a different cartridge.
On the commercial ammo side, I’ve found it’s hit or miss with 300 WSM. It is sometimes hard to find at the big box stores, but I have found it out there. I have usually had better luck online. Right now, for some reason, optics planet has 38 loads in stock and some at a more reasonable price point. For me though, getting into handloading changed the calculus a little. Out of curiosity, what cartridge did you end up with?
7 PRC - I know I am no better off with ammo selection, but it will be six months before the rifle is finished. I love the .300 WSM, but at this season in life don’t want to get into handloading. I have several rifles that I can shoot until I get 7 PRC ammo stock piled.
Cool, would love to hear how your rifle turns out. I went back and read your earlier post. Perhaps someday I will build a custom. I guess I could have with the money I sunk into reloading, but I am enjoying it so far. At my season of life it works and I am starting with my 21 year old son and teaching him as I learn. I am going with a Tikka 300 WSM and I am going to try the GRS Fenris stock with an Element Helix 4-16x44 optic.
Sounds like a great option, I would love to see the final package! After our post I looked at Midway and others an did see some .300 WSM, no idea whats going on with the ammo industry. I don’t think that you can go wrong with a Tikka build, top quality. I only went custom as my new friend is building it at his cost of components, which is about half of mine, with no smithing costs (bedding, assembly, etc,). He is winding down, this might be his last rifle. He really wanted to build me a SA 7 SAUM, I had to arm wrestle him for a PRC since I don’t reload. He is also building himself a 7 MEGA at the same time, crazy ballistics but reloader only.
If I had not gone this route, it would have a been a .300 WSM Tikka Ember in a McMillan or Mesa Stock :), maybe next time.
I’m piecing together my switch barrel rifle now since I picked up my action yesterday. I’m still awaiting my barrels but those are the last pieces of the build.
I have the Bergara B14 Crest in the 7mm PRC and I have to say it has exceeded my expectations. If you would consider the Fierce i would look at this rifle.
