I’m going to be moving to MO soon. I expect to be hinting at less than 200 yards in brush. No more than 400 yards (and that’s on the outside chance I hunt the northern units).
I’m looking at what caliber would be best, and then what rifle would be best. Currently I think the Tikka t3x in 6.5 creedmoor will be my choice. That being said, I would love a lever gun, but they don’t seem to be nearly as capable or as easily modified.
That’s an excellent choice. Only hesitation I’d have is the tikka T3x lite generally doesn’t have a threaded muzzle, which limits your ability to add a muzzle device later.
Perhaps a Bergara Ridge?
Tikka is great and accepts pre-fits if you want to change things up.
I’m partial to 7mm-08 in short action non-magnum hunting cartridges. On the other hand, I leaning towards 6.5 PRC if you insist on a 6.5. Pretty much any 24-30+ caliber option will work.
Jim:
Yeah, I agree, I’d like the threaded barrel, but I don’t plan on putting anything on it anyway. Possibly a muzzle brake someday, but it’s not that big of a deal for me atm. A suppressor would be nice, but I think that’s a tool for another day. Is there any way to get one installed later? Or is the barrel too thin? (Normal t3x lite, not the superlite).
Also, based on your video, it seems like the stock could be better. Do you have any specific recommendations ok what would be best? How much would you expect one to cost (again, just hunting).
Tre:
I thought about that, but the rounds cost more, and they’re a little more rare in rifles. I already have access to a 7mm rem mag, but I’d like to get something I can really dial in, not a classic savage 110 I’d be afraid to chop up and create a scout gun with (probably my end goal with the tikka build, honestly.)
7mm-08 vs. 308, why? More power?
Welcome to Missouri! I just moved here last year (I live in the southern half also, about an hour east of Springfield). It’s awesome here. I faced the same question as you, and I will tell you what I did. Tikka T3x CTR (Compact Tactical Rifle) in 6.5 Creedmoor (I got it in stainless steel but it is also available blued). This is a better choice than the T3x Lite because it does have a 5/8x24 threaded muzzle and it is a 20" semi-heavy contour barrel. (Even if you don’t have a suppressor or other muzzle device today you may want the option someday, and then your rifle will be ready to go). Great “all purpose” gun for both Saturdays at the range or hunting in the woods. The trade-off is a tad more weight than the normal T3x, but honestly now that I have used it on a hunt, I didn’t mind it at all, because the weight is well-balanced in the hands. Still lighter than most “predator” barrels which have tend to have full bull contours, and I think it feels a bit nicer than the Bergara B-14 Ridge over all, which I also have in .308. Though, these are very similar to each other, and it may come down to personal preference. Between the two I prefer the Tikka CTR.
I totally hear you on the lever gun dilemma as well. I have heard of a gunsmith near me who will modify Henry Long Rangers to accept a suppressor, but due to the barrel contour they have to use 1/2x28 rather than 5/8x24. I have a Henry Long Ranger in .243 Winchester (also available in 6.5 CM, .308 Win), but I haven’t taken it out yet beyond just sighting it in. It is a beauty of a gun though. Not sure I am brave enough to let a gunsmith attempt this procedure, still contemplating it. I think they have to cut the barrel down a couple inches too in order to get the pitch they need there. Though, if you’re never beyond 200 yards and into lever guns, then nothing wrong with a trusty ol’ 30-30 either. If you go to a gun show around here, there will be tons of them. What other modifications would you want to make?
Anyway, good luck with the move, and with choosing your new gun!
Thanks! That’s good to know.
I’m sure they can thread a lever gun, but I’d honestly rather get one that’s tactical to begin with, or to just run it the way it was meant to be (I’m all for tactical, but I really don’t prefer to kill a piece of history when there are better options.)
Also, I was thinking about making the tikka a scourlt rifle, but I’m not sure what the process would look like. I’d have a basic bolt gun, but I’d have to shorten the barrel to 16" (maybe 18, depending on how much the velocity is affected), and then put a forward mounted scout type scope on it. I don’t see any 16, or even 18" barrels on Tikka factory guns, so I’d be looking at doing it myself (not really liking that option, even though I have tools that could do it), having a gunsmith do it, or buying a new barrel online that’s already set up for what I like. From what I’ve heard, even a 16" barrel would be fine for at least 300 yards, probably 400, but if that’s wrong, tell me now!
I’m not even sure HOW I’ll be hunting, so I can’t decide if I’ll need an arca mount, or something else (I’d be tempted to use any normal camera tripod with a quick release, but that would really limit the gun, or make the stock REALLY ugly.) Idk if I’ll be in a tree stand, hiking, or what.
Any recommendations for an online store I can look at a good selection of scout scopes? Bass Pro, as much as their stores are cool, doesn’t really have the filter or search options they ought to.
Ah the scout rifles. Yes, they should work great out to 300. Shorter barrels just mean you won’t burn all the powder, and your velocity will be lower generally than with longer barrels, which means you may have additional elevation adjustment to compensate at longer distances. But even the Sig Cross suffers from this, and Jim recently took that out to 500+ on a black bear.
I own a Ruger Scout rifle in .308; it has an 18" barrel, they also have models with 16" now too which are a bit lighter even. I love it as well, took it on a hog hunt in Oklahoma just recently. It is an M77 action, and they are great guns, but I got a good deal on it too (I think the going MSRP is a bit high). In my mind these should cost no more than $800-900 (which is what I paid for a used one). But new they are asking a lot more than that.
Someone on here has mentioned they have a Christiansen Scout rifle, and they really seemed to like it as well, though I think that one is even more expensive than the Ruger. The other one that is supposed to be really good is the Styer (again high prices seems to be a theme with the scouts). Nothing beats the Tikka action though–it’s just so great. That having been said, you have some work ahead of you to turn it into a scout variant if that is what you’re after, and I am guessing you would want to employ a gunsmith if that is the route you go. Cut and recrowning is common and easy to find someone to do it for cheap. Not sure what the forward mounted pic rail requires…
Honestly, I have found the best place to research scopes is on manufacturer’s websites, and then go find the ones you like most at stores from there. In “scout-specific” scopes my research has pointed me to the Burris 2-7 scout scope, but I haven’t purchased it yet, I just used the iron sights on my Ruger so far. Plus I can still use the integral scope rings it came with for any other (1" tube) scope. No online store has a great UI in my opinion. Bud’s, Optics Planet, PSA, grab-a-gun, guns.com, gunbroker, so many sites and all of them kinda suck at modern web design and UX. But if someone knows of another (better) would love to hear too.
Yeah, scout rifles seem to hover around $1500 from what I’ve seen. That’s my entire budget, scope, rings, and all, so I don’t think I’ll be going that route (at least not a factory made option. )
Assuming I just go with a basic bolt gun style, would you recommend a Christiansen, Tikka, or some other thing like a Howa or Weatherby?
Tikka is what thr Vortex podcast guys use for most of their modding builds, but I’m curious if there’s something else that’s better for a bit more. (I think not, but idk).
As for the websites, yeah, most are pretty bad. It’s even worse at the more mom and pop type stores. They don’t even have an online catalog.
Would a 20 or 22 inch barrel hurt maneuverability in the woods there? Seems like everyone wants a really short barrel, but none of the guns I like ship with anything less than 22 or 24 (except the specialty type scouts or AR platforms)
Normally the shorter barrels are made short in order to accept suppressors. But some folks like “handier” rifles too. I own both types. The scout rifles are usually shorter like 16 or 18", and I also have an 18" Bergara Ridge (SP). On the other hand, I also have a full length normal sized Tikka T3x Lite and I don’t really feel it is any hindrance to have the extra length at all (but it also is not threaded so a suppressor is not an option unless I take it to get cut/threaded). Anyway, I can report that some rifles, even though they are shorter in length, don’t feel any “handier” at all, and sometimes feel awkward even. But this is hard to quantify, and some people may feel differently holding the same rifle. In my experience, length has not been a huge consideration for how handy or comfortable or maneuverable it is, even though in theory shorter should be better.
I do have some experience with those brands you mentioned, as well as Jim’s recommendation, the Bergara B-14 Ridge. Let me summarize my thoughts on each, but ultimately up to you, what you find you like vs. don’t.
Tikka: It is hard to ignore how nice these actions are to run. Just feels great. In addition to being really smooth, the bolt “lift” isn’t too short or tall, and leaves lots of room for scope clearance. They are cheap enough rifles that you have some play there to customize them, but you can run a budget up beyond 1,500 pretty quickly too when you start customizing. On the other hand, if you aren’t in a rush to spend all at once and do everything you want at one time, you can just make the modifications you want most at first, and keep going from there later on.
Bergara: If you want the barrel a bit shorter the “Ridge” model Jim mentioned does come in 18" but the standard is like 20" so not much difference; I doubt you would be able to notice much switching between the two until you added a suppressor, then it might be more obvious. My own setup here came in under 1,500 and if you followed this formula, I don’t think you’d be disappointed at all if you copied it: On Jim’s recommendations, I bought this rifle (~$900 at the time), and paired it with a scope which was his top pick from his video on scopes under $500–the Vortex Diamondback Tactical. When you add the base and rings that clocks in just under 1,500 and ticks a lot of boxes. Also, this is a really smooth action, like the Tikka, only it has a 90 degree lift which means it comes closer to the scope. Some don’t mind that, and the bolt knob is larger too on the Ridge which does help with handling confidently, even with the closer scope clearance. Still, I prefer the shorter throw of the Tikka personally (everyone will feel differently about this). I still like both of these guns a lot, but if I could only keep one it would be Tikka.
Howa/Weatherby: Great way to start with a semi-custom build: get a Howa barreled action from Brownell’s and pick a stock out from a vendor of your choice: MDT and Boyd’s are popular picks but there are others. Hard to go wrong but yes barrel length will tend to be longer by default, and I can report total weight will be a bit more than the Tikka option, closer to or even exceeding the weight of the Bergara, which I didn’t care for. I ended up selling/trading my Howa. Weatherby is using the same action in their Vanguard line, and you can pick from all sorts of configurations. I personally like what they did with the “Bronze” cerakote models such as the Weatherguard. I think if I tried again I might be able to find a combo that works better for me using the Howa action, whether built on my own or from Weatherby… But again, this stuff is just personal preference.
Christiansen: I haven’t ever bought one, I almost did this past fall at a show but the higher prices always repel me in the end, when I feel a lot of other choices offer similar or better features for less. Maybe someday I will actually get one and I could prove myself wrong and think they are the greatest thing ever, but I dunno. Not holding my breath I guess.
Savage: Another one to consider is the Savage 110. These come in many varieties. Hot ones right now include the “Tactical” as well as the “Ultralite” I think it’s called. Jim did review the ultralite one I think. I handled one at Bass Pro and liked it, but ultimately didn’t buy it. I have my eye towards getting their “Tactical” model in 6mm Creedmoor. Might be my next purchase. Still researching, however.
CZ: I am also curious about the 600 series. I owned a CZ in 22LR that was a great little gun, but never a centerfire. Have seen some positive reviews of these, but haven’t handled one myself yet. If you see one in a store somewhere, pick it up and see what you think, and let us know here if/when you do!
When I evaluate rifles for purchase in general, I try to handle them a lot and see if they feel good in my hands, and if it is easy/natural feeling to lift and maneuver. Ideally you will be able to run the bolt also, but at gun shows sometimes this is not possible since they lock the actions shut with zip ties, etc. I have learned that I prefer rifles between 6.5 and 7.5 lbs. regardless of barrel length without a scope; adding rings + scope will usually add a pound and half or two pounds. Lighter than that feels awkward, like I am holding a toy gun. Heavier than that feels awkward, and often “unbalanced” where a lot of weight is toward the front/barrel and not much stability in the stock, where you hold on to it. But again, a lot of this is personal preference and everyone will feel differently as they develop their own tastes.
Thanks! That’s really helpful.
I really love th look of the Browning bronze color. The Hell’s Canyon one specifically looks great, but it’s on the upper end of my budget, just stock, and it seems like basically a duplicate of what the 7mm I used in Idaho when I lived there. I can still use it, so it seems like a waste of a purchase to get something so similar (both capable of long range, theoretically).
The 7mm I can use is an older Savage 110, but in 7mm Rem mag. I’ve only ever “sighted it in” and that was with the cheapest PPU brand junk I could find, and then once I shot a water jug at 200 yards off my knee (I’ll tell you, that is the least comfortable position you can shoot from LOL). I’m sure it goes well past that 200 yard point, but I have no idea if it does so accurately. It’s a 9.5lb critter though, without a scope, so it’s not exactly light LOL. And I’m trying to get something I can save money on, since those shells are $2.50 a shot for the cheaper stuff (Hornady Whitetail, not the junk PPU this time LOL).
I think the main takeaway from Jim’s video on the Tikka for me, was that they don’t have a threaded barrel option (at least not on the model he got), and the stock was less rigid than he liked. He thought the Bergara was a little better since it had that rigid stock and threaded muzzle. The Bergara apparently doesn’t have as good of a feed though, so that for me disqualifies it. For my use, I’d rather get something that never fails to feed, that I have to upgrade the stock for, and maybe get threaded someday, rather than join Ruger in losing a deer because my rifle malfunctions.
I’ve never paid much attention to CZ, and I’ve heard Savage isn’t much good anymore.
I made the mistake of looking up the .30-30 cartridge… now I want a 1894 in .30-30 LOL. Would that get to 300 yards, or would the round just bounce off by the time it got there? And would you think a scope ruins the appeal of the rifle, or just adds functionality? (I always liked the look of open sights, but I’m just a little worried I could miss something if I don’t have a low light capable scope mounted). The issue is $1500 is my whole budget, and the ammo isn’t any cheaper than for a .30-06, which can reach out well past any .30-30. It just seems like a waste of money to get something that can only take a deer out to 300 yards and no farther. But I guess that’s purpose built for my needs at the moment. Any thoughts on the quality of Winchester at this point, and whether a .30-30 or a .44 mag would be a better choice?
I have never shot a 44 mag, so I can’t say. I like .30-30 lever action guns, they are fun to shoot. But honestly I haven’t hunted with mine, it’s just more of a fun gun for me (Marlin). No experience with the Winchester. Recoil is very light for a 30 caliber bullet, more like a 7.62x39 or 300 blackout. I would guess the 44 mag has more kick than any of those. My brother hunts deer and hog with his Henry Big Boy in .357 mag and he loves it. Just uses iron sights. But he was born out of his time, should have been around a hundred years ago–he would have fit in better back then, lol.
RE: scopes on levers: the rear sight “folds down” on my Henry Long Ranger to accommodate scopes. In older .30-30 models you can just knock the sight out of the dovetail in the rear if need be, or mount a scope with rings that are high enough to clear it. But the real downside with lever guns is they all tend to have old-style stock geometry where the cheek cannot make a comfortable weld high enough for a scope. It’s like they are made for close range, standing snap-shots only when stalking through the woods, not so much for shooting prone, or even from a seated/bench position as we most often do these days.
This has got me thinking that at least once, I should probably hunt with my Marlin now that I live in Missouri, just quietly hike out my back door into the woods with that old lever gun slung over my shoulder, and (hopefully) find a deer, and take it using a standing shot with nothing but iron sights, like my great grandpa would have done. Would be a very different experience from hunting mostly in stands/blinds as I have done so far.
That’s funny! Both deer I’ve taken were from a standing position! I’ve never even been in a blind, much less hunted from one (sounds more like fishing than hunting LOL)
Jabs aside, I think I really just need to wait till I get to MO and talk with the people I’ll be hunting with. I have no idea what methods they use, or even where they hunt, so it’s really hard to decide on the best option.
On the topic of rifles, I think this might be my best opportunity for the lever gun, but it would probably end up being a .44 classic style, or some version of the Browning BLR (with a modern, cheap caliber, rather than a shirt range handgun one.)
Speaking of, how long of a shot do you think a .44 would make? And I’ve heard there’s a +P round available, how do I know if a rifle can handle that extra pressure?
No idea on the 44 mag; I like sticking modern calibers personally simply because they are more versatile, and of course they will be flatter shooting than any of these “classic” lever friendly cartridges. That’s why I got myself a Henry Long Ranger (similar to the BLR) because it comes in a more useful/modern cartridge, and if I am going to take a lever gun hunting, it’s probably going to be this one. Most likely, the .30-30 will remain a backyard/fun-gun/milk jug only gun for me, haha.
Ok. What kind of groups do you get with the Henry? I like the idea of those type of leverguns, but I’d hate to get a .270 that wasn’t at least close to as accurate as a bolt gun. I mean, I can’t believe it would be AS good as a modern bolt gun, but I would want it to be like 1.5 MOA or less.
Groups are no different for me than any other bolt gun I own; depending on ammunition I can get sub MOA groups with the Henry. Average is probably higher maybe 1.5 or 1.75. I would say I more consistently hit sub MOA groups with my Tikka rifles. Still I was plenty happy with the Henry in terms of accuracy. It’s more the stock geometry being bent so much away from barrel, etc. that is the downside. But also note the Long Ranger isn’t available in .270 that I know of, or any other long action cartridge. Only .223, .243, .308, and 6.5 CM. But the BLR might have long action options, never looked into it though.
Good to hear!
The BLR has 30-06 and .270 available. I was just using it as an example.
I just finished putting a friend’s Mossberg. 243 back together after “restoring” it from a hoarder house. The action is so bad I had to whack the bolt a couple times to open it! And the “safety”… well, it isn’t. It is technically a 2 stage, everything locked down, or nothing locked down, but the trash heap is so loose that you can work the bolt without any hindrance at all. The trigger functions too, but only if you pull it hard a couple times, then the safety completely comes undone!
The inner parts of the thing are all pot metal (I have blocks of wood with less porous surfaces!) I was thinking about setting it up as a short range gun, but with its issues, I can’t imagine that it would be anything worth while to pursue. I don’t think I’ll every buy any mossberg product ever (despite having loved the one lever .45-70 of theirs I shot in Idaho). I might even insist on stripping down any rifle I do think about buying. I’d rather know what’s wrong with the critter before I end up with a pile of junk I can’t even sell.
I think the lever gun is the way I’ll go. It’s cheap enough to be doable, I don’t need a scope, but I could get one cheap, and it would be accurate enough for my needs.
If you think the lever gun is the way to go the you are forgetting one of the best that was ever made. The savage 99. It was the best modern lever action made in my opinion. Well built and very handy. A joy to carry because it balances so well. Rotary magazine and round counter is too cool as well. I have two one in 243 and one in 300 savage. It just doesn’t get any better than this for a lever gun.
Have you used the Henry or Browning versions? Just curious how they compare. The Savage looks really ugly, and it doesn’t look like it is manufactured anymore. But if it’s effective, it might be something I’d get.
I guess beauty is in the eye of the beholder because I think they are super sexy. They don’t make it any longer but its highly effective and mine are very accurate. You are literally holding a piece of art in your hands when you hunt with it. I have some experience with the big boy and the browning is just an attempted copy of the savage and the other I forgotten was the Winchester 88. The 88 is on my must have list. I would like it in 243 I think or 264 win mag. Almost all these new cartridges out have been done before. Just bringing them back under new names.
One of the things I’m worried about with an older gun is whether it will be shot out, and whether I can ever find parts for something that breaks.
Would a normal barrel be able to be fitted to any of the lever gun designs (either classic cartridges, or mag fed modern cartridges)? If I got one, would that barrel be the end, or would it just be a little harder to find, but definitely out there?
I hadn’t heard of the 88, I’ll take a look. (And the Savage is probably more “different” than “ugly”. It’s not like a hipoint or something LOL