I’ve now talked to two action manufacturers that said their actions should NOT be used with Plus Peak ammo.
Tikka said they test the action with two high-pressure proof loads of approximately 25% higher than CIP standard for the cartridge. That’s lower than the advertised 80,000 psi Federal is claiming.
But remember the proof loads are to ensure safety if bad ammo is used. It’s not designed for constant use and some of the guns BLOW UP when subjected to that test—though it is rare.
They expressed concern that the action simply is not intended or designed to withstand that level of pressure.
Wasn’t the whole point of the SAAMI standardization to make sure each action and barrel can withstand the ammo in standard cartridges for safety? And now after the actions and barrels are designed and manufactured, Federal just says it has to take more now?
Add to all of this the pics I’ve seen from you guys showing split cases for 7BC and it just doesn’t look good.
I’m not buying Federal’s safety claims. Not when the gun makers tell me their actions shouldn’t be subjected to that pressure.
See, now I have questions and I am going to play devil’s advocate to Jim’s post:
Who has done the most testing? Tikka or Federal?
TIKKA doesn’t make a 7BC so chances are very low they tested their action with the +Peak cartridge. Federal hasn’t release the 6.5CM +Peak yet, but they may have sent ammo to TIKKA to test, but I can’t say they have or haven’t.
On this point, I am more likely to trust that Federal has tested their ammo on a TIKKA rifle than TIKAA has tested the Federal ammo on their rifle.
Who has more data on the nature of the ammo and the physics behind it, TIKAA or Federal. Being that this is proprietary info, I don’t think TIKKA has it. Federal claims that the high pressure does not effect the action at all and also claim (now) that the ammo is safe in older rifles. We will see in a couple months cause for $65-$80 anybody can find out.
For me, outside if playing devil’s advocate, its hard to put weight behind TIKKA’s stance. They are clearly a very conservative company - they don’t make rifles outside of the main hitters like 300WM, 308Win, 6.5CM, etc.
If Savage came out and said what TIKKA said, that would be something. Introduce a new cartridge and Savage will make a rifle for it.
By the way, the Federal guys explain some of the physics on why the +Peak is safe in the Vortex nation pod and why brass at that pressure is not. I think that is a very relevant point to the safety of the catridge.
I know early on it was reported on other forums that I read that Glenn Seekins said the whole purpose behind developing the new actions for the m3/ph3 was to handle the higher pressures of the new cartridges. Which would tend to indicate that the previous generation couldn’t handle them
I’m in an industry that heavily supports the tech world. When lithium ion batteries were first becoming the thing our environmentally conscious customers were begging to integrate our older systems. Obviously in some cases we made parameter changes to permit the use. Then folks began seeing the difficulty in recycling said batteries, our primary battery manufacturer claims to have warehouses full of used lithiums that no one will touch due to cost and hazards. Other manufacturers are just now deciding to offer lithium batteries and we’re 4 years into field testing zinc-nickel and sodium-ion.
I say this as a preface that some companies have the capacity and flexibility (willingness) to advance technology as new innovations are available while others don’t necessarily find value in “unproven” or “niche” things but once it takes hold they suddenly jump on board.
That said, if a 25 Creedmore plus peak (I think beastmore sounds more exciting) should become available I’ll be all over it.
That’s potentially terrifying. I’ll be the first to say I want the benefits it brings, but I want it safe and accurate.
I haven’t watched the Vortex podcast you sent yet Ben, but you mentioned they said on it “…doesn’t transfer pressure and energy into the action and why it doesn’t cause more barrel wear.” Did they say where the pressure and energy goes if not into the action? It just blows out the barrel or ?
I think it’s fair to question both the action manufacturers and Federal to get this figured out. If there is legitimate risk of an action blowing up, it’s just not worth the risk. Am I understanding correctly that Tikka tests high-pressure proof loads, with brass cases, and at least in some of those tests it was blowing up? Has Tikka actually pressure tested the alloy cases as well?
I have not tracked the cracked allow cases situation at all, can’t comment, I’d be curious to know if any 7 BC have blown up though.
They said the cartridge keeps the pressure and doesn’t expand as brass would, not into the bolt face or chamber, but pushing the bullet out. Also says, because they use fast burning powders that the powder is burned more efficiently, which they say actually causes more ware than speed.
Curious to see what Federal’s response to this will be.
Seems odd that they would develop this without testing it in one of the most popular rifles around ( at least on the internet / youtube. Curious how popular Tikka is overall, including just regular gun folks)
As to Tikka’s popularity, they seem to be the holy grail for the RokSlide crowd. However, they also think hosing your rifle down with a water hose is cool, as well as the Rokstock. Snipershide seems to view them as a welcome entry action for the amateur tinkerer.
The point of the action testing is to make sure it can take the pressure in the instance of a case failure. I’ve seen several pics texted to me from friends that had case failures on 7 Backcountry.
So apparently Tika actually has said they don’t recommend it. However I had to use Google AI to find that out. It’s not like they made some Grand announcement with multiple YouTube videos, or posts on major forums, Etc
I’m looking at the info… and from a hunting aspect energy kills… I don’t see the point of the plus peak, as what’s it really gaining except in terms of pressure…. I shoot the Norma bond strike $40+/- a box out of my 20” Springfield waypoint bsa carbon barrel and the data shows the following for just regular off the shelf 6.5 creedmoor
Those compared to this federal peak ammo published ballistic’s out of 20” barrel, (non peak box ammo price for terminal ascent $48+/- currently and fusion going for $38+/-) I’m sure the peak ammo will cost more…
Looks like they have a good idea, but at this point I don’t see it killing the 6.5 PRC, I think this high pressure stuff mated with the new barrel technology will surpass things eventually
I will try sticking this question in here rather than creating a new thread
So a number of people are now talking about what will happen if you could create a 6 Creedmoor, or 22 Creedmoor using the plus Peak technology.
Are modern design hunting bullets really meant to go that fast? People are talking about close to 4000 ft per second for the 22. I don’t know if what’s currently out there can handle such speeds and rotations.
35 and 39 gr bullets out of a 204 Ruger clock over 4000 fps with standard powder charges. Mine does it with everything I feed it. Zero issues with jackets coming apart, so I’d like to believe the bullet technology exists. I’ve seen a few old timers pushing 224 Weatherby and 22-06 to 4000 fps with 50 gr bullets.
Within a couple days of the 6.5 +Peak media launch there were guys posting videos necking the cases down to 6mm, though they were pulled within hours; probably one of those NDA sort of things. I don’t have any doubts that component companies aren’t going to eat this stuff up. Honestly, it seems like a hang on tight and watch where this goes over the next 18 months. Me, I just want a 25 PRC and 6.8-7 PRC.
I have been thinking that if the 6.5 CM + Peak is really a fully capable elk gun, then a necked down 25 CM +Peak would be a everything else gun. 2 guns to do everything in the Lower 48 minus Grizz. I imagine a 25 CM + Peak would scream at up to 3100ft/sec, maybe more. Both bing bangs with low recoil. Either would be dominant for NRL or PRS.
It seems like I’ve seen some people push their 22 creeds to the upper 3k’s with just brass and longer barrels. Don’t know about stability, but they gotta have a barrel life of like 300 rounds
