I’ve got a lot of great information from this group and have loaded my first few rounds. Now I have questions on how you develop loads.
I’m starting with my 308 and bought 3 powders. Those are Tac, Varget and N140. Maybe I bought to many to begin with. How would you start testing these loads? Would you load 2 grains below max for each one and then test the groups? Then change the charge by a grain and try again? Once I figure out the best powder/grain combo work on seating depth and do this for multiple bullets unless I find a tack driver?
Just looking for some high level guidance. Thanks in advance!
Ok, so the following is only for application to the 308 Win - nothing else.
The 308 Win has a lot of historical load data to draw from, and with that comes a lot of proven loads for a given powder, brass, primer, and bullet combination.
Most of the time, you will find a low velocity and high velocity load that is accurate (defined as consistently 1.0 inch at 100 yards), it has been rare for me to find loads in the middle of the powder charge spectrum (doesn’t mean it cant happen, but…)
In reloading the 308 for going on 30 years now, and that being the primary cartridge I have used 90% of the time, these are the things that I have found to be consistent across all my 308 rifles. Currently I have 5 rifles in 308; and I have had as many as 8 in the fleet.
Give me what brass, type of bullet, weight of bullet, you plan to use or have in hand and I will give you some start points for loads that have worked for me over the years; from 110 grain up to 180 grain bullets.
Not against trying different bullets. This is one of my deer hunting guns. I don’t have a ton of rounds through this gun and everything had been factory loads. It shot 150 grain hornady interlocks better than the 178 ELDX factory loads. The 150 grain superformance shot horrible, but I’ve never had it shoot well in any gun.
Brass - Once fired Hornady factory ammo and new lapua brass. Playing with the factory brass right now.
Primers - Federal 210M, Winchester WLR and Remington 9 1/2
You can probably skip the first 30 minutes of it. That’s about brass prep and bullet prep which in my personal opinion are not truly load development. Around 30 minutes it starts talking about the issues regarding ladder testing, etc. Jim has that in his reloading course on this website. Then it finally gets into actual load development
So, start with the 150s first and stick with that for a minute.
Use the TAC first and try this load with the 150s.
Go to the Hodgdon site and dowload the Ramshot Load Data - it is viewable on your phone.
Go to the Ramshot TAC data, about page 71.
Look at the data and load 45.0 grains of TAC in either the Hornady or the Lapua brass. Use a standard seating depth of 2.810 - 2.820; just make it the same length as the factory round.
Just load 3, see how it shoots.
Varget use 45. 7 grains under the 150, same on seating depth, see how 3 shots group.
Use the Federal 210M, and would recommend getting some CCI 200s as they seem to be more available than the Federal these days.
Be patient on the front end of this, I would not do the thing of loading 10 groups of three at bullets in .5 grain increments. Save your brass and powder and bullets.
Shoot em and let me know.
JV
If you are still trying new ammo to see what it may like, would recommend getting your hands on some of the Hornady TAP or Hornady Black 168 AMAX. Can generally get it for 28 to 32.00 a box on line. I would be surprised if the gun did not like it at all, meaning not good enough to hunt with, so you wouldn’t be out of any money. The AMAX is a deer killing bullet and I have shot a lot of deer with the 168 specifically. Just a thought…
Well, all I will tell you is that is basically the only bullet I have hunted with for 25 years in the 308 Win. I have used Nosler Ballistic tips, sierra softpoints, barnes copper, etc., but settled on the AMAX cause they shoot well and are easy to handload. They do not blow up or disintegrate on close shots inside 100 and they do expand well out to 600 in my experience. I would say trying the Hornady SSTs will save you some money; the Noslers are great and one of my favorites in the 308 is the 165 and 125 ballistic tips. They just have gotten pretty expensive compared to the hornady line of bullets. For me, the bullet that gives me the best accuracy and downrange performance is what I go with in a particular rifle. I have a 165 sierra hollow point that I use in only one particular rifle because it shoots it extremely well, the BC is low, so I only consider it a through 400 yard load, but that’s fine for me. There is nothing wrong with a good soft point bullet for whitetail hunting, especially if it is what a rifle shoots well.
I’ve had good results with the 150 gr Barnes TTSX over H335. The load data is available on the Barnes website. Currenlty using Norma brass, as I had some on hand, but also bought some Peterson and ADG. I’m using Rem 9 1/2 Large Rifle primers. This is producing 1" groups out of a Savage Model 11.
Yep, the barnes are great bullets. The 150 TTSX does a good job, I have used and use now the 125 TTSC in my 308, running at 3150 fps / 24" barrel, using the TAC powder. Good suggestion.
What load do you recommend for 168 grain ELD-M with Peterson brass. Powders are limited here in SE Alaska, but I have some 4064, CFE 223, IMR 4350, and LT-30.
4064 is a classic for the 308 win. 41.5 - 43.5 in that range should give you a positive result. CFE 223 seems to work for a lot of folks but I have not used it, nor 4350 or LT30. LT 30 is referenced as similar to H4198 which I have used. Using H4198 with lighter bullets 125-135 in 308 worked well, but not so much for the heavier rounds.
But, you are thinking correctly in that bullets listed as match bullets are not designed for game hunting. When the AMAX originally came out, it was listed as a game bullet, and then hornady changed it…probably to distinguish it from their SST hunting ballistic tips. Even with the newer ELDMs, if you watch a lot of ballistic gel tests done by some pretty reputable people, you will see, that in gel anyway, the ELDMs expand well…as do the AMAXs, but BTHP match bullets, be they Sierra, Hornady, or Berger, etc., traditional copper jacket bullets do not expand consistently. Their hollow tip is not a hollow point and is not designed for any type of expansion. Do some research on BTHP Match bullet designs and you will get a better understanding of the topic. Keep learning.
My approach will be for my 7PRC
Very much like Crow Works.
Pick two bullets of type I want. eg 7mm 160 CX and 168 LRX
use online resources to find a powder that is:
a. one I can get
b. 100 % burn for my barrel length
c. high full ratio
d. max load velocity
.4 or .5 grain ladder past max by a couple. 1 per.
shoot to pressure signs
analyze for clusters
load 10 of middle cluster
shoot to group probably 3 groups of 3.
do same for other bullet.
So basically LCW method for powders I own or can get. 40 rounds and I should have a good load. If not pick two more bullets to try.
Adding- clean barrel and foul between bullet types.
Then shoot to zero.
Went to the range today. The weather was great and it ultimately attracted a lot of other shooters. I shot several groups with N140, TAC and Varget.
My first 4 shot groups ranged from .6" to .8" groups. All were significantly better than factory ammo. The second set opened up more than i liked, but my barrel was getting hot and I was rushing. To many cease fires with all the people there, so I need to go back on a weekday. I was rushing to get my shots in before the next cease fire.
TAC had the best group, but worst SD (14.6) and ES (33.8).
Varget had the second bet group, but really close to the TAC group size and had the best SD (2.9) and ES (7.4)
All the first round groups were so close it really didn’t matter much, but the varget had extremely consistent FPS. I was looking for about 2800 FPS and TAC hit that. The others were in the 2700s, so I’ll play with the charges and use better brass next time.
Considering these were my first reloads I’m extremely happy. They shot better than all the factory ammo I’ve shot with this rifle.
The first question I have is what is your use case. Are you shooting targets at 1,000 yards, big game at 400 yards, deer and hogs at 50-150 yards, other?
If you need precision at long range or even at short range (e.g., competition target shooting), then you do need to get the best you can out of your reloads.
But, if you’re hunting whitetail or similar in the woods of the Atlantic states or Northern Midwest, you don’t really need to go to a lot of trouble (unless you just want to for entertainment value).
I fall in the latter case. When I started reloading, I had a $12 Lee Loader (basically, a hand tool) that neck-sized and loaded .243 Win. I simply used a formula provided with the reloading kit. I didn’t get 1/2 MOA groups…but I didn’t need 1/2 MOA groups. I could make a clean shot on a paper target or game out to a couple hundred yards with good effect.
If you’re after deer, hogs, black bear or similar within a 200 yards, no need to overthink this.
If you want to achieve great precision - whether for competition, long range hunting or just for the good feeling that comes with meeting a challenge, then go through the reloading info provided on the Backfire website (https://backfire.tv/).
